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	<title>Comments on: Week 2: Mucho Macho</title>
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	<link>http://www.bolanobolano.com/2010/02/04/week-2-mucho-macho/</link>
	<description>The work, life, and literature of the writer</description>
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		<title>By: Maria Bustillos</title>
		<link>http://www.bolanobolano.com/2010/02/04/week-2-mucho-macho/comment-page-1/#comment-695</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria Bustillos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 18:57:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bolanobolano.com/?p=459#comment-695</guid>
		<description>Oh this is SPLENDID. So glad you&#039;ve caught up, here ... I&#039;ve got to finish the bit I&#039;m writing about Edwin Johns but I really mean to come back and address this stuff some more, later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh this is SPLENDID. So glad you&#8217;ve caught up, here &#8230; I&#8217;ve got to finish the bit I&#8217;m writing about Edwin Johns but I really mean to come back and address this stuff some more, later.</p>
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		<title>By: Pocket Shelley</title>
		<link>http://www.bolanobolano.com/2010/02/04/week-2-mucho-macho/comment-page-1/#comment-683</link>
		<dc:creator>Pocket Shelley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Feb 2010 07:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bolanobolano.com/?p=459#comment-683</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just catching up here.  I am also really glad you wrote about this passage.  Having ridden in a fair number of cabs, I didn&#039;t find it entirely creditable that a cabbie would lay into his passengers like this.  Having said that, I&#039;m feeling a certain squeamishness generally about the characters.

There&#039;s a cat and mouse game of disclosures and secrets going on.  We know especially little about Liz, and in fact we&#039;re told at one point that we&#039;ll find out more about her thoughts later.  In the absence of that disclosure, she runs the risk of being a kind of lamia or melusine or, well, think the cover of Roxy Music&#039;s &quot;Siren&quot;.  She&#039;s the woman at the bottom of the pool (in the dream, for starters), drawing men to their doom.  The Blue Angel, who turns civilized men into beasts.  The polite version of this story would be &quot;Jules and Jim&quot;, another triangular love story.  Pelletier and Espinoza also flicker in and out of being full-bodied, I mean in the way that Clarissa Dalloway or Leopold Bloom or, why not, Little Nell, seem full-bodied.  Bolano can make them live and breathe, but then he mystifies them again.  They&#039;re in geometrical relationship to each other, and that sometimes seems to be their character.  

So back to the Belle Dame Sans Merci aspect of this, the two scholars who one suspects haven&#039;t been in a donnybrook since childhood, suddenly turn into hooligans needlessly maiming (lost teeth) a Pakistani cab driver.  Have they been driven to this by the woman who will be their doom?  It&#039;s a preposterous, old-fashioned reading; on the other hand, there aren&#039;t many women characters in the book so far.  Liz is pretty much it, and she&#039;s the somewhat bored nexus of desire and violence, which sound familiar.  This makes it especially disturbing and yes funny that Pelletier and Espinoza invoke Valerie Solanas while kicking the cabby.  Are they acting on behalf of the Society for Cutting Up Men?

None of this adds up to a point, oh well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just catching up here.  I am also really glad you wrote about this passage.  Having ridden in a fair number of cabs, I didn&#8217;t find it entirely creditable that a cabbie would lay into his passengers like this.  Having said that, I&#8217;m feeling a certain squeamishness generally about the characters.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a cat and mouse game of disclosures and secrets going on.  We know especially little about Liz, and in fact we&#8217;re told at one point that we&#8217;ll find out more about her thoughts later.  In the absence of that disclosure, she runs the risk of being a kind of lamia or melusine or, well, think the cover of Roxy Music&#8217;s &#8220;Siren&#8221;.  She&#8217;s the woman at the bottom of the pool (in the dream, for starters), drawing men to their doom.  The Blue Angel, who turns civilized men into beasts.  The polite version of this story would be &#8220;Jules and Jim&#8221;, another triangular love story.  Pelletier and Espinoza also flicker in and out of being full-bodied, I mean in the way that Clarissa Dalloway or Leopold Bloom or, why not, Little Nell, seem full-bodied.  Bolano can make them live and breathe, but then he mystifies them again.  They&#8217;re in geometrical relationship to each other, and that sometimes seems to be their character.  </p>
<p>So back to the Belle Dame Sans Merci aspect of this, the two scholars who one suspects haven&#8217;t been in a donnybrook since childhood, suddenly turn into hooligans needlessly maiming (lost teeth) a Pakistani cab driver.  Have they been driven to this by the woman who will be their doom?  It&#8217;s a preposterous, old-fashioned reading; on the other hand, there aren&#8217;t many women characters in the book so far.  Liz is pretty much it, and she&#8217;s the somewhat bored nexus of desire and violence, which sound familiar.  This makes it especially disturbing and yes funny that Pelletier and Espinoza invoke Valerie Solanas while kicking the cabby.  Are they acting on behalf of the Society for Cutting Up Men?</p>
<p>None of this adds up to a point, oh well.</p>
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		<title>By: Dreams in The Part about the Critics &#171; Infinite Zombies</title>
		<link>http://www.bolanobolano.com/2010/02/04/week-2-mucho-macho/comment-page-1/#comment-612</link>
		<dc:creator>Dreams in The Part about the Critics &#171; Infinite Zombies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:23:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bolanobolano.com/?p=459#comment-612</guid>
		<description>[...] that he wanted to be a writer rather than a critic. He&#8217;s got that Spanish machismo that Maria wrote about (remember that Pakistani cab driver), and the little bit of insight we have into his dreams [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that he wanted to be a writer rather than a critic. He&#8217;s got that Spanish machismo that Maria wrote about (remember that Pakistani cab driver), and the little bit of insight we have into his dreams [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Terrell Williamson</title>
		<link>http://www.bolanobolano.com/2010/02/04/week-2-mucho-macho/comment-page-1/#comment-584</link>
		<dc:creator>Terrell Williamson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 14:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bolanobolano.com/?p=459#comment-584</guid>
		<description>What a great tread.  My initial reaction to the scene had been their reactions were over the top, but illustrative of their discomfort, insecurity, and hyper-sensitivity to their unusual relationship with Liz Norton.  Maria observations about a machismo put an ever more realistic spin on their reactions.

The scene is an exemplar of Bolaño&#039;s writing at its best:  brutal realism, tinted with absurdity.  The absurdity coming with the comments that accompany the kicking.  The brutality being just the beat down and Pelletier&#039;s and Espinoza&#039;s.

One other comment would be about their ultimate reaction to the entire incident, they forget it.  In reading these two sections, I&#039;ve notice numerous reference to the characters &quot;forgetting.&quot;  The primary instance I have in mind is Morini&#039;s reaction when he reads about the murders in Northern Mexico in the first section.  He forgets about the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a great tread.  My initial reaction to the scene had been their reactions were over the top, but illustrative of their discomfort, insecurity, and hyper-sensitivity to their unusual relationship with Liz Norton.  Maria observations about a machismo put an ever more realistic spin on their reactions.</p>
<p>The scene is an exemplar of Bolaño&#8217;s writing at its best:  brutal realism, tinted with absurdity.  The absurdity coming with the comments that accompany the kicking.  The brutality being just the beat down and Pelletier&#8217;s and Espinoza&#8217;s.</p>
<p>One other comment would be about their ultimate reaction to the entire incident, they forget it.  In reading these two sections, I&#8217;ve notice numerous reference to the characters &#8220;forgetting.&#8221;  The primary instance I have in mind is Morini&#8217;s reaction when he reads about the murders in Northern Mexico in the first section.  He forgets about the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Maria Bustillos</title>
		<link>http://www.bolanobolano.com/2010/02/04/week-2-mucho-macho/comment-page-1/#comment-574</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria Bustillos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 21:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bolanobolano.com/?p=459#comment-574</guid>
		<description>WELL SAID.  YES.  And it&#039;s like they &lt;i&gt;know&lt;/i&gt; it, know how pathetic, how inexcusable, even as the thing is happening.  It makes them feel terrible, and stupid, and vulgar, but pretty soon the sweaty half-sexualized excitement and the guilt, too, have passed, and they&#039;re attending conferences and reading out their papers like never before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WELL SAID.  YES.  And it&#8217;s like they <i>know</i> it, know how pathetic, how inexcusable, even as the thing is happening.  It makes them feel terrible, and stupid, and vulgar, but pretty soon the sweaty half-sexualized excitement and the guilt, too, have passed, and they&#8217;re attending conferences and reading out their papers like never before.</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Summers</title>
		<link>http://www.bolanobolano.com/2010/02/04/week-2-mucho-macho/comment-page-1/#comment-572</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Summers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 20:02:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bolanobolano.com/?p=459#comment-572</guid>
		<description>While I can&#039;t say I saw it coming, I wasn&#039;t at all surprised when the two critics laid into the cabbie.  I even empathized a bit, given how infuriating it is to be insulted.  

However, whatever empathy I had evaporated with the Rushdie reference.  I already had a dim view of those two, and it felt like the cry of a poseur to justify the violence as supposedly defending (or vindicating) the freedoms of a writer.  It was pathetic and embarrassing.

I don&#039;t want to belabor my own interpretations, but I feel this is part of the &quot;oasis of horror&quot; indicated by the epigraph.  The critics lives are marked by lassitude and vaccilation, and finally they feel enlivened by doing something horrible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I can&#8217;t say I saw it coming, I wasn&#8217;t at all surprised when the two critics laid into the cabbie.  I even empathized a bit, given how infuriating it is to be insulted.  </p>
<p>However, whatever empathy I had evaporated with the Rushdie reference.  I already had a dim view of those two, and it felt like the cry of a poseur to justify the violence as supposedly defending (or vindicating) the freedoms of a writer.  It was pathetic and embarrassing.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want to belabor my own interpretations, but I feel this is part of the &#8220;oasis of horror&#8221; indicated by the epigraph.  The critics lives are marked by lassitude and vaccilation, and finally they feel enlivened by doing something horrible.</p>
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		<title>By: Maria Bustillos</title>
		<link>http://www.bolanobolano.com/2010/02/04/week-2-mucho-macho/comment-page-1/#comment-571</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria Bustillos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 15:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bolanobolano.com/?p=459#comment-571</guid>
		<description>Right? The differences go deeper than you think ... even than I think, and I&#039;m Cuban but I was born in So. California, and therefore grew up among many Dudes. Plus, my husband is English and has this whole different range of responses. I was a little taken aback at my own assumptions about Espinoza when the dust-up started in that scene, and then they turned out to be right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right? The differences go deeper than you think &#8230; even than I think, and I&#8217;m Cuban but I was born in So. California, and therefore grew up among many Dudes. Plus, my husband is English and has this whole different range of responses. I was a little taken aback at my own assumptions about Espinoza when the dust-up started in that scene, and then they turned out to be right.</p>
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		<title>By: paravil</title>
		<link>http://www.bolanobolano.com/2010/02/04/week-2-mucho-macho/comment-page-1/#comment-570</link>
		<dc:creator>paravil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bolanobolano.com/?p=459#comment-570</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t mean to imply that I think the cabbie was right or justified in the way he handled the situation. As you said, the proper thing to do would be to politely keep quiet. But neither is beating the hell out of him a proper response. I think that the extremity of their response communicates more than offense at Norton being called a &quot;whore.&quot; In other words, in some sense they are defending her honor, but in another they--both sleeping with her, wanting to sleep with her at the same time, etc.--show little respect for her either. Part of why they react like they do could be because they are already dealing with the guilt and frustration of their situation, and the cabbie&#039;s words, rude though they may be, are convicting to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t mean to imply that I think the cabbie was right or justified in the way he handled the situation. As you said, the proper thing to do would be to politely keep quiet. But neither is beating the hell out of him a proper response. I think that the extremity of their response communicates more than offense at Norton being called a &#8220;whore.&#8221; In other words, in some sense they are defending her honor, but in another they&#8211;both sleeping with her, wanting to sleep with her at the same time, etc.&#8211;show little respect for her either. Part of why they react like they do could be because they are already dealing with the guilt and frustration of their situation, and the cabbie&#8217;s words, rude though they may be, are convicting to them.</p>
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		<title>By: dannygutters</title>
		<link>http://www.bolanobolano.com/2010/02/04/week-2-mucho-macho/comment-page-1/#comment-569</link>
		<dc:creator>dannygutters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 06:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bolanobolano.com/?p=459#comment-569</guid>
		<description>This book club is becoming interesting. I thought this scene was really helpful for establishing characters temperaments. But as a bookish American, I feel like my reaction in this situation would have been closer perhaps to the Dude in the Coen Brothers Big Lebowski (&quot;That&#039;s just..Your Opinion..Man&quot;). On my reading, their reactions seemed really over the top, I kept thinking of &#039;The Stranger&#039; actually, with this explosive violence at a seemingly shrug-offable insult. It&#039;s really fascinating to read these other comments about how others would react, making the scene feel less absurd than it seemed to me on first reading it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This book club is becoming interesting. I thought this scene was really helpful for establishing characters temperaments. But as a bookish American, I feel like my reaction in this situation would have been closer perhaps to the Dude in the Coen Brothers Big Lebowski (&#8220;That&#8217;s just..Your Opinion..Man&#8221;). On my reading, their reactions seemed really over the top, I kept thinking of &#8216;The Stranger&#8217; actually, with this explosive violence at a seemingly shrug-offable insult. It&#8217;s really fascinating to read these other comments about how others would react, making the scene feel less absurd than it seemed to me on first reading it.</p>
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		<title>By: Maria Bustillos</title>
		<link>http://www.bolanobolano.com/2010/02/04/week-2-mucho-macho/comment-page-1/#comment-567</link>
		<dc:creator>Maria Bustillos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bolanobolano.com/?p=459#comment-567</guid>
		<description>Right?  They were so mad, they would say anything.  That was another interesting part of it, it&#039;s like the anger had to find a &lt;i&gt;vehicle&lt;/i&gt;, they were just helpless against the flood of it, and so:  Rushdie!  Valerie Solanis?!?!?  He chose such total wtf objects, there.  

And miette, yes, many instances of &quot;losing it,&quot; every variety thereof, in &lt;i&gt;IJ&lt;/i&gt;, aren&#039;t there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right?  They were so mad, they would say anything.  That was another interesting part of it, it&#8217;s like the anger had to find a <i>vehicle</i>, they were just helpless against the flood of it, and so:  Rushdie!  Valerie Solanis?!?!?  He chose such total wtf objects, there.  </p>
<p>And miette, yes, many instances of &#8220;losing it,&#8221; every variety thereof, in <i>IJ</i>, aren&#8217;t there.</p>
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